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kitchenaid ksc24c8eyy02 not cooling at all

kitchenaid ksc24c8eyy02

compressor continuity test good

compressor is hot, but not too hot to touch. Doesn’t seem to be vibrating, if it is it’s very fine

both lines to the compressor are room temp

replaced the compressor relay, tested the capacitor - good

both fans work, the evaporator is running, the condenser fan I removed and put it on power and it ran fine. it was not turning on in the freezer, even when I manually closed the door switch

Coils are clean - tipped the fridge back and gave them an extra cleaning to make sure

condensor coils inside the freezer not cool at all

Is this possibly..

temp sensor

control board

or is it a sealed system failure.

put enough time into it now I’d like to dog it out lol. Help.

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Hi @bobwahn ,

You said that the compressor is hot but little or no vibrations can be felt and given that the evaporator unit inside the freezer compartment is not icy cold and that the evaporator fan is also not running it appears that no refrigerant is being pumped through the evaporator unit in the freezer for some reason

What is the temperature in the refrigerator compartment? I realize that you said that the refrigerator is not cooling but is it both compartments or only the freezer compartment?

If only the freezer compartment is not cooling then since the evaporator fan in the freezer is not running perhaps the reason may be due to a faulty sensor in the freezer or perhaps a faulty control board.

Your model has two evaporator units, one in the freezer and one in the refrigerator and the refrigerant flow through each is controlled by the control board opening and closing a valve in the sealed system to direct the flow as required. It may be that the control board “thinks” that the freezer is cold enough and therefore has turned off the evap fan and closed the refrigerant valve to the freezer but the refrigerant is still being fed to the refrigerator compartment so that is why the compressor is still operating. This is just conjecture on my part.

Here’s a link to the tech sheet that may help as it will have the diagnostics and the schematics for the refrigerator so that you can test each component/function individually to see if it works OK. (see 2nd post down in link). You have to sign up with the website to download it. The tech sheet part # is W10287673 but I can’t find a free copy of it anywhere online.

If both compartments are not cooling then there may be a problem with the compressor or the sealed system. A way to know where the problem may be is to check the sealed system high and low side pressures and also the compressor’s current draw. Here’s a link that explains it better than I can.

Depending on your location you may have to get a licensed refrigerator repairer to do this so as to comply with the environmental regulations regarding the handling of refrigerant gases. Where I am you can’t even buy refrigerant gas without a license if you wish to recharge a system in a refrigerator or household aircon unit

If it is determined that the problem is with the sealed system or the compressor, how old is the refrigerator?

According to the warranty in the user manual there is a 10 year warranty on the sealed system (compressor, evaporator, condenser, dryer and tubing) Years 1-5 parts and labour and years 6-10 parts only. Just a thought.

Just to get the names and locations correct, the evaporator unit is inside the freezer compartment (and also inside the refrigerator compartment - your model has two evaporator units) and the condenser unit is outside, underneath the compartments near the compressor.

Only saying this because I was confused when you said “both fans work, the evaporator is running, the condenser fan I removed and put it on power and it ran fine. it was not turning on in the freezer, even when I manually closed the door switch” and “condensor coils inside the freezer not cool at all”

The condenser fan is located with the condenser underneath, outside the compartments. The condenser fan is usually thermostatically controlled and can run whether the doors are open or not or even if the compressor is running or not as its function is to cool the condenser coils (and the refrigerant) if they are getting too hot.

The evaporator fan inside the freezer compartment is the one that will operate when the compressor is running but it will be stopped when the door is open and started again when the door is shut. Its function is to drag the air across the icy cold evaporator unit and blow the cold air throughout the compartment to cool it down to the correct temp. The compressor will keep running with a door open.

Apologies for the long answer.

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Thanks @jayeff - this helps a lot! I’ll do some additional testing based on your instructions and post more details. Yes, it looks like I reversed my terminology - that helps also. I’ll check again to make sure but I don’t think the refrigerator side is cooling at all either. It was manufactured 2/14, I am not the original owner so I imagine that voids the warranty - do you know?

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@bobwahn

I don't know for sure but in most places a manufacturer's warranty is not transferable to a new owner so most likely it isn't covered any more

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@jayeff - if it is needing a recharge of coolant, is there likely a leak or does a system naturally lose pressure over time? If I can recharge it will it just drain off again?

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@bobwahn

The sealed system is just that - a sealed system. It shouldn't leak at all. It should last the life of the appliance and only usually leaks due to a failure somewhere.

It is basically pressure tight (air tight?). Some domestic refrigerators have valves permanently fitted to the system so that the suction and discharge pressures in the system can be checked for the correct amount of refrigerant in the system, but most don't and you have to actually cut the pipes, fit the equipment to it then check the pressures and if no good pump out any remaining refrigerant, check for and fix any leaks, create a vacuum in the system and recharge it with refrigerant and then re-seal it again

Where accessible check for any signs of an oil residue on/below the condenser coils, compressor and evaporator unit. There is a special oil mixed in with the refrigerant to lubricate the compressor and if there is a leak then the refrigerant will escape to the air undetected but the oil may leave a trace.

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Sounds like one of 2 problems. 1: you have zero refrigerant left in the system. Which is possible. Or 2: there has been an internal failure in the compressor where the motor is running but the compressor is not. Its not as rare a problem as you think. Do an amp draw on the compressor. Check the data tag on compressor for what amp draw should be. If it's failed internally you'll likely see low amps. Like 50% of RLA. It is possible for the refrigerant to leak out. Alot of newer systems have a tube that is LITERALLY crimped, not brazed. These sometimes leak. Or there could be a leak elsewhere. Microcracks in the suction or liquid line, cap tube, etc. I can tell you with certainty this isn't a temp sensor or control board issue.

Unplug the machine for a while, at least an hour or two. Come back when compressor is cool to the touch. Do a resistance check across the compressor windings. Make sure it didn't go out on high temp. I know you said it had good continuity but doesn't hurt to check. Hi temp n will kill common winding while it cools, then will return continuity. Measure ohms of common to start, common to run, then run to start. Run to start should be somewhat close in ohms to C to S + C to R because it is measuring across both windings. If all that checks good, plug in with amp clamp in place. Check start-up amps, and RLA. If amps are low, there's most likely an internal failure in the compressor. Unless you have the proper tools and training I recommend against going any further in this repair. If they're good, try a hard-start kit. Hvac supply companies have them available (commonly used on refrigeration equipment, though you.might have a hard time finding one small enough for your compressor). You'll have to figure out which one you'll need, based off the compressor.

If you have to tie into the refrigerant system, again unless you have the tools and know-how I recommend against this. Especially with a fridge. Because once you tie in, you'll need to recover the refrigerant in the system. pressure test with dry nitrogen, to try and find the leak. Then you'll have to pull a vacuum on the system. Then weigh the charge back according to the quantity of refrigerant listed on the data tag inside the fridge (most likely) and probably won't be more than ~13oz. Since refrigerant is sold in 25lb jugs… I would recommend against doing this.

Now, you said one of your evap fans didn't run even when manually triggering the door switch, but if given power would run manually. Have you checked the door switch also, to see if power is flowing across when its triggered? Could be a faulty switch. If it stopped.letting the fan run then it won't moving air across that coil, and it would end up sending liquid refrigerant back to the compressor. If the compressor IS failed, this could be why. But, I'm hoping that its just part of the start components and not the compressor failing. Just verify amps, that everything is receiving power that should be, and we can go from there. Please post results of tests so we can help figure this out. I could write novels about this kinda stuff.

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Reposting this in the right place... FYI, I had the capacitor tested and it was good. I ordered a replacement relay and it didn’t make any difference so I returned it.

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Thanks @brandon_k - I tested the continuity again, and it looks like they are ok. 5.1 / 5.9 / 11 - it jumps around a bit but seems to add up correctly. The data sheet says Run 5.1 and start 5.7

this compressor has a wiring harness running to the relay. 2 white wires and 2 red wires. One red and one white are reading .74 amps. The other red and white are negligible - .04.

the LRA on this compressor is 9.3

full load amperage is 1.5

It feels like it is running, light vibration. Is it running light due to no refrigerant or is it a problem with the compressor?

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@brandon_k - more info. After running an hour all four wires test 12.72 and it’s pretty warm.

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Alright your resistance and all sounds good. You said that full load amperage is 1.5A. Is that what the data tag says? Or what it's actually pulling? LRA is always going to be alot higher than RLA. LRA is Lock Rotor Amperage. RLA (I've also seen it as FLA) is Run Load Amperage (or full load amperage) and is what you'll see if its running with max load. You'll typically see it running less than this, though not significantly. If running way less than what its rated for, could be that it's low on refrigerant, or busted inside. What does it sound like? I'm assuming you've heard fridges turn on before, and they've all got that sound. Hard to describe. Does it sound like that? If so, you might have lost the charge. As the other person described, did you see any oil anywhere on the skid? Thats where it would be leaking from. Otherwise you'll have to use dye in the system.. Again let me stress if you don't have the correct tools and training please do not open the refrigerant system.

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But if it sounds like a normal compressor (its probably very quiet but they all have that sound. Maybe put a screwdriver to your ear and touch it to the compressor to help hear it if need be) then should be just a leak. Granted that's not a good thing, but hopefully its somewhere accessible and fairly easy to replace. A broken cap tube is a nightmare. But if the little 1/4" pipe coming off the compressor (or whatever size) has a crack or hole, that's so much easier to repair.

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@brandon_k -

Q. Alright your resistance and all sounds good. You said that full load amperage is 1.5A. Is that what the data tag says? Or what it's actually pulling?

A. Full load on the spec sheet is 1.5

It’s actually pulling around .5 - .6 - even after running for 90 minutes. I bought a meter off Craigslist that was giving wild readings but I replaced the battery today. Now the readings are more consistent.

LRA is 9.3 according to the tag.

not seeing any oil

sounds quiet - some clicking around, the fan comes on, the compressor feels like it is vibrating very lightly and making no sound

I’ll try the screwdriver trick tomorrow and listen. I really appreciate your help, this is an interesting challenge for me.

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Robert さん、ありがとうございました!
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